Bitch, please.

[marguerite_26]

First, I am not speaking of any individual when I say this. This is something that has been bothering me for a while because I get told this a lot. Frankly, it is driving me insane.

Harry/Scorpius does not equal chan.

Cross Gen does not equal chan.

Why do people think this? Is ALL Snarry chan? I'm sure there are plenty of Snarry authors that would be unimpressed to hear that. We can accept that in every pairing there are some 'common squicks' that are more prevalent than others, like Harry/Lucius and non-con. But they do not have to go together.

What if people went around saying HP fandom is full of nothing but teens having sex in the Room of Requirement? Ok, granted, some people do say it. Doesn't that make you want to scream? I mean really, wouldn't it drive you nuts if someone reduced your fandom to a bunch of teenage fumblings? Like the entire fandom was restricted to Hogwarts days? The boys could never grow up and get careers?

I've written 8 Cross-gen fics including 6 Harry/Scorpius. NONE are chan. Chan is not implied by ANY pairing. Chan is about the ages of the characters.

Draco/Scorpius implies incest. It just DOES.

Harry/Scorpius DOES NOT IMPLY chan. Please stop assuming that. If you don't want to read the pairing, don't read it. I really don't care. Maybe Harry/Draco is all that you ever want to read. Maybe you don't like age disparity. Maybe the epilogue makes you want to spork you eye out. Totally understandable. But please don't dismiss the pairing because some fics in the ship are chan. There are chan Harry/Scorpius fics. There are also wonderful of fics with Scorpius over 17. If anyone wants non-chan harry/scorpius recs, you just let me know.

*jumps off soapbox*

Comments

[norton-gale.livejournal.com]

What if people went around saying HP fandom is full of nothing but teens having sex in the Room of Requirement?

LOL, what else is the Room of Requirement for? :D

That's amazing how much you've written since you started in HP fandom. You go girl!

As for Harry/Scorpius: everyone will be just fine if they read the warnings.

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

Well... the warning thing is a whole different issue. Making sure every fic has the correct warning will certainly help the readers in choosing.

But I know some people see the pairing and assume it must be chan so just skip it. When Strikethrough happened, I wasn't in the HP fandom and I was hearing a lot of 'well what did they expect? they are writing about children having sex.'

I have written a lot. :D And you've beta'd at least half of it. *squishes you*

[piratesmile331.livejournal.com]

So where does one find these chan Harry/Scorpius fics?

PS I agree with you, by the way.

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

LMAO! I'm working on a Harry/Scorpius rec list at the moment. Should I divide the list into chan and not chan so the chan is nice and easy to find. *g*

♥

[snegurochka_lee]

that was my question too :D

[fourth_rose]

*facepalm*

I always thought chan required one of the partners to be underage? (Which leaves the question where you draw the line, because if you go by the British age of consent, Harry/Scorpius with a 16-year-old Scorpius isn't chan either. Personally, I wouldn't call something "chan" unless there was an actual pre-pubescent child involved.)

Then again, I've never got why cross-gen is such a squick to some people. Is it because only the young and pretty are supposed to get some?

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

The definition of chan is a bit of a mess. I was discussing with people last night about creating an ADI (Age Desparity Indicator) to clear things up.

Like warning: chan(40/15)

meaning Harry is 40, Scorpius 15.

I always thought that 17 would be the age of consent in the Wizarding world because of the whole '17 you are an adult wizard thing.'

But I think you are right, most people go with 16.

[sesheta-66.livejournal.com]

*squishes you*

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

LOL! Those are clearly squishes of 'lalala I am soooo staying out of this...'

*squishes you back*

[lotus-lizzy.livejournal.com]

I'm not agreeing with those who call Harry/Scorpius chan, but I think I may know the reason for that misconception.

The problem stems from the books. We only see Albus and Scorpius as little eleven year olds. I myself have trouble seeing them as older (even though I write them as older).

The pairing is new, and so it needs some time to grow into its own fan-canon where it becomes more natural to see Scorpius as an adult next to Harry. We are a little spoiled in our Harry/Draco world of having tons of history behind us BUT there was a time when someone wrote a Harry/Draco and the other shippers went WHAT???

I know its frustrating but I have high hopes that it will get better. *big hugs* my dear.

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

*sigh* i think you are right that it stems from the books and Albus and Scorpius being 11 the only time we see them. I mean, I know that and I do understand that somewhat.

My issue is that I would think that as a fandom we've opened our mind to the possiblities of years down the line. If I talked to some misc. fan of the books I met standing in line at the grocery store and mentioned 'Harry/Scorpius is sooooo HAWT'. I would assume she would turn and flee the creepy lady.

But the people in HP have been living and breathing the 'possiblities' this universe gives us for years. There have been so many wonderful fics about adult characters pre-DH or pre-HBP when the kids were all 15, 16 that I don't see why it is so hard to think of Scorpius or Al being 17 or even 24.

I mean, look at AS/S it's not all about two eleven year olds? Or did that take time for people to accept?

sorry if I'm babbling... I'm totally high on cold medication. *sniffle*

[leela-cat.livejournal.com]

Umm.... gah?

I've never quite figured out the age limits of chan either, but I always assumed that it was 16 or 17. But then again, Walking the Plank has a chan (16-18) on its archive. I assumed that's about legalities, especially for Australians who aren't legally supposed to read anything sexual with anyone under the age of 18.

For me the lines about 16 for reading and 17 for writing. That's more about personal experience though, and about growing up in countries where the age of consent was 16.

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

or me the lines about 16 for reading and 17 for writing.
do you mean you must be 16 to read about sex and 17 to write about sex?

And yeah, either way we define chan I think the easiest is to simply state the age we are talking about because someone is going to define it differently.

[beatnikspinster.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry that those assumptions are upsetting you, Marguerite. I'm sure your rec list can only help. *hugs*

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

Thanks, hun. and sorry about the confusion above. :/

[romaine24.livejournal.com]

Non-con is prevalent for Harry/Lucius???

I have to say that early on in my reading of fanfic there was a lovely writer that mainly wrote Harry/Lucius fluff. I read all of her stuff and I even wrote a Harry/Lucius story. It's quite funny and not just because my writing was even more horrendous back then.

Actually, I'm aware that HarryLu tends to be on the Dark side, but I still think of all those fluffy lovely one-shots I read.

As to Harry/Scorpius. As I responded to a comment on my post. The characterization I have of Harry in my head wouldn't go there. I've written so many stories from his POV that it's firmly entrenched. So I don't assume that Harry/Scorpius would be chan. My inclination would be just the opposite. However, I'm aware there will probably be a lot of chan stories with this pairing, but I haven't come across that many so far.

I would hate to see folks thinking that is the default for this pairing. But, I also wish people wouldn't dismiss mpreg, creature fics, death fics, out of hand either.

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

Oh, I need to find your Harry/Lucius. :D Right after I read my nextgen fic that got posted this morning!

Harry/Lu? Not Hucius? Larry? sorry... I couldn't resist.

I would hate to see folks thinking that is the default for this pairing. Exactly. I have no problem that there are chan fics, I just don't want people thinking they are one in the same.


But, I also wish people wouldn't dismiss mpreg, creature fics, death fics, out of hand either.
hahaha! one cause at a time, please. Can we schedule creature fics for mid February? Maybe when do_me_veela starts posting? :D

[shiv5468.livejournal.com]

I'll read fluffy HarryLu. Point me please?

I like fluff, me.

[rickey-a.livejournal.com]

oh wow - I hadn't scene anyone make That statement????? but then again I live in a happy bubble. Duh- of course xgen doesn't equal chan. If Scorpius is 18 - no not chan. In Snarry - if Snarry is 22 - it's not chan. In Lucius/Harrry - if Harry is 19 - it is not chan. If Scorpius is 15 - it is chan. :)

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

yes, exactly it's about the age, not the pairing.

A lot of Harry/Scorpius fics are chan. As are a lot of cross gen. It's just sometimes 'a lot' gets switched to 'all' somewhere along the line in people's heads.

There are quite a few people that really love this pairing that refuse to read chan. So I find the assumption disheartening.

[frantic-mice.livejournal.com]

I knoe this because I do not read chan and I DO read Harry/Scazza. o.O


Do ya think it's some weird creepy unconscious homophobia that says that older dudes going out with younger dudes = pervs? Cause in het relationships men dodees all the tiem and nobody thinks anybody has to seek TREATMENTS.

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

I do think you are adorable for reading Harry/Scazza, but AS/S makes you want to spork your eye out due to the virgina babies. *snort*

I think stuff like Snape/Hermione (yes snaaaaaaaaaaapesssssssssex) likely gets the rep for being gross and creepy, seek counselling. Probably much worse when the ship first started. But I'm not in that ship so I don't care.

Though slash+cross-gen might be worse because of the whole older man abusing young that we see too often in RL. Although, the idea of a young Hermione with Snape makes my bile rise. So whatever.

[calanthe-fics.livejournal.com]

Harry Scorpius can = chan. Just sayin'.

[shiv5468.livejournal.com]

But cal, you haven't mentioned diamons for ten minutes....

[potteresque_ire]

*Hugs Rita*
I explained my perspective on cross-gen and chan in another post yesterday :), definitely, the two are not the same! But to me, intent is more important than age in establishing a chan relationship.

Have been thinking a bit more about this, since I am still thinking about the Harry/Scorpius fic I have in mind. The greatest difference I can see at this point between HP/DM and HP/SM is that the former almost doesn't require any elaboration of the attraction between the two men - canon took care of that for us. And in the latter (as well as in other cross gen), a good fic requires an explanation of sorts of why the two get together. Infatuation (which in bad hands often leads to chan) is the easiest way out, in a way. Blame the hormones. But while this may be acceptable for the younger of the pair, it falls apart easily with the older person. Thus to make a cross gen romance believable, it requires, as Micie would say, MAD MAD SKILLAGE in the writing. Romaine did an almost perfect job with Possession with the Heart, but it's Romaine we're talking about!! Can I honestly pull something like this off? Will I end up writing chan? NOOOOOO!!!

PS. I may take Romaine and your offer in helping with plotting and what not ♥ I need to learn how to write properly. :)

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

a good fic requires an explanation of sorts of why the two get together. yeah, I think if you are going to write a true relationship between them you need to work for it. Yes, they can both be hot and easily attracked to the other. We all know that Scorp has been sleeping with a Chocolate Frog Card under his pillow since he hit puberty. *g* But for the older of the pair, no explanation basically leads to a) I wanted to do your father so I'd do you instead or b) You are a fit piece of ass, what's your name again? Both can make for great fics, but not really believable 'relationships' (not a healthy one anyway).

My advice to you is don't think about PotH when thinking about writing Harry/Scorpius. If that was the first or the only H/Sc I ever read, I would be like where the heck do I even start?

Honestly, I was like that with H/D. All the fics I read were like 100k classics, the cream of the crop spanning the last three years... I was completely frozen when I thought of writing the pairing. omg... sorry totally OT.

But of course you can pull something like this off! You are a fabulous writer. You don't need to have plot write the next epic H/Sc.

Anyway... you have my addy. I'm dieing to hear your bunny. :D

[nqdonne.livejournal.com]

Well, to my mind, the underlying problem is the utter lack of understanding about what chan is. Sorry, but chan =/= adult having sex with any under-aged party. It CAN, but chan, essentially = adult/pre-pubescent adolescent. I think the common association is that chan is tantamount paedophilia, which is SHOULD be. However, most people INCORRECTLY define paedophilia, particularly in our fandom. Sex with a minor over the age of 13 (age of sexual maturity) is not peadophilia. It's pederasty.

I agree that people are wrong in insinuating that Harry/Scorpius (aka: the new Sirius/Harry) is automatically chan. If Scorpius (or ANY minor party in a cross-gen fic) is pubescent or higher (aka: 17, which for SOME is the age of sexual maturity, whether it's "legally" of consent or not) is merely adult having sex with a minor. It's not paedophilia, and it's not chan.

People need to STFU. If you don't like cross-gen, don't read it. Some people do. In fact, in some cultures, an adult having a relationship with a 16-year-old is COMMON. I saw "age disparity" relationships when I was living in Germany -- 15-year-olds dating 27-year-olds! People need to get over it.

More importantly, people need to learn to do a little RESEARCH and actually get a logical, founded understanding of terms commonly used in fandom (and life!). More than half the time the problem is a lack of common sense and a huge dose of sheepism.

[romaine24.livejournal.com]

As far as I can tell there is a mixed opinion on what chan is and isn't. Agree that peadophilia is dealing with pre-pubescent adolescent and pederasty from 13 or so to age of sexual maturity (or consent). Though the latter historically often implied a consensual relationship and sometimes not even involving sex.

However, chan in fandom originated with it meaning an adult involved with someone under the age of consent. In HP it might have been further defined to equal peadophilia, I don't know. I've only been in HP fandom for three years. And if there is documentation, or an hp glossary saying this is what it means, I would love a link. The ones I have don't even mention chan.

In dealing with Harry/Scorpius we are speaking of an "age disparity" of 15/41.

If you read the comments on this post you will see there is a lot of disagreement about what ages chan covers. I don't think that means anyone who thinks it does cover those over 13 as illogical or not understanding terms commonly used in fandom.

What I can say is that "underage sex" does not commonly imply "age disparity" but sex between two underage adolescents.

Most folks who don't like cross-gen don't read it, but for those of us who do, we tend to think there's a difference when the younger partner is underage and when he/she isn't. There are (can be) major differences in the dynamics if Harry is in his fifth year and Snape is his professor vs Harry is an Auror and discovers Snape is alive.

I'm not sure where the lack of common sense or sheepism fits into this.

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

If there is a discrepancy in what is considered chan and what is NOT chan (and the actual definition seems elusive or at least open to interpretation), I would just put their ages in the warnings and actually forget about all this "is it chan" or "is it not chan" business. That makes it clear to the readers what ages your character possess and then they can make the decision whether this is a squick for them or not.

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

ah, I see you are a proponent of my ADI (Age Disparity Indicator) - copyright pending.

Harry/Scorpius (41/15) people may interpret that as they wish. :D

[softly-sweetly.livejournal.com]

All people are idiots.

Seriously, there are way too many people who cannot comprehend more than a two-point scale in life. I spend my time unpicking their dislogic and submitting papers on it. And popular culture does all that it can to enhance this issue. All girls secretly want to kiss other girls. All teenagers are over-dramatic. All chan writers support child abuse.

But it's a many-fold problem. People don't understand the difference between chan and sleeping with someone underage. Authors don't warn properly because they're uninformed/arrogant/lazy. Betas and readers don't call them on it because they're uninformed/arrogant/lazy/feel it isn't their place.

However, you know that Harry/Scorpius=Chan is not the truth, as does anyone with a vague handle on warnings and the real world. Just hold onto that, and keep swimming. Just keep swimming...

Now who is this person, I want to go fling in my opinion *g*

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

LMAO. *swims*

I don't the chan issue is exactly black and white, clearly no one can even agree on a definition of chan, let alone how it should be warned against.

And really, not my issue. Except that my pairing is getting dragged into. If the definition was agreed on, the warnings were clear and people actual read them there would be peace and porn in the world and what else could we ask for eh?

btw - to save me a separate email, because I am arrogant/lazy, word doc is easiest for me. :D

*squishes you*