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marguerite_26Eldest loves to argue. He will argue about anything, to any one, at any time. He is annoyingly good at it because he is so stubborn and good at distraction tactics. Even when he could barely walk, he argued with me one cloudy day that the sun was actually the moon and dammit I almost gave in and agreed with him because he would not stop.
Today he stood in the rain furiously arguing with me that it was not raining. Dude, just wear your hat to school. It's RAINING ON YOUR HEAD. RIGHT NOW. >:| Why are you insisting it will not rain today.
I blame my sister. This is how she was as a kid, and why I became the queen of compromise because I hate being argued with over stupid useless things. Like if it's currently raining. when it IS.
/random child rant
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Date: 2012-04-30 12:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-30 12:40 pm (UTC)It makes me insane.
I can only hope to curb that enough in my child to avoid him getting the crap kicked out of him in school. I'm afraid one day he is going to piss off the wrong person. :/
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Date: 2012-04-30 12:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-30 12:53 pm (UTC)He's always had issues regulating his emotions, and well... the arguing.
Part of the problem with having one special needs kid, the other one gets sorta hand waved as 'normal' . -_-
It's not a huge issue, it's just... really annoying.
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Date: 2012-04-30 12:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-30 12:54 pm (UTC)So you saying that is just hilarious. ;)
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Date: 2012-04-30 01:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-30 12:54 pm (UTC)A friend linked me to this chart, which I love: http://twentytwowords.com/2011/03/15/a-flowchart-to-help-you-determine-if-youre-having-a-rational-discussion/ I suggest that a modified version might be handy with your lad.
When my eldest nephew was little, he was at my place a great deal of time, and would every now and then have a tantrum, so I made up a series of scoring cards with criteria/reasons for each score. I don't think he ever made it past the appearance of the cards without stopping to either laugh at me, or to argue his score ;-)
A few sheets of cardboard and some Sharpies will see you being able to whip out a 'Your argument is not supported by the evidence, you lose' and 'Your argument is based on emotion not facts, you lose', etc -- even if he still argues, you can award yourself loads of points and keep a running tally on the fridge so that at his 21st birthday you can point out that you won his childhood 3,286,752 to 13.
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Date: 2012-04-30 12:59 pm (UTC)I which I had it when being force to live with my sister. Though she would clearly argue about the use of the chart, and the inaccuracy of the wording...
but:
you can award yourself loads of points and keep a running tally on the fridge so that at his 21st birthday you can point out that you won his childhood 3,286,752 to 13.
I'm so doing this!!! :P
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Date: 2012-04-30 01:06 pm (UTC)What ACTUALLY happened was that Dad would usually be behind in the point tally, because I was a girly swot, so he would suddenly start awarding himself points for being handsome, for making up good bedtime stories, for not sleeping with the au pair, for learning the song I liked so he could play it for me to sing along to … At the time I would feign outrage and negotiate him down to doing the washing up with me drying, but he always had me in gales of laughter and it's one of my fave memories of him.
And yes, that chart is gold!
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Date: 2012-04-30 01:18 pm (UTC)so he would suddenly start awarding himself points for being handsome, for making up good bedtime stories, for not sleeping with the au pair,
ahahah... your childhood never fails to amuse me. :D
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Date: 2012-04-30 01:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-30 01:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-30 01:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-02 01:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-30 02:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-02 01:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-30 02:38 pm (UTC)Actual exchange we had in the car one day when he was TEN:
*fifteen minutes of ridiculous arguing about nothing*
Me: WHY YOU ALWAYS GOTTA ARGUE WITH ME???
Him: You want me to be a lawyer. I'm practicing.
-____-
I pretty much called that check and mate right thar.
We basically all stopped arguing with him when he was three, but sometimes I still do on principle. It never ends well because he will argue to the death even if he is dead wrong and knows it.
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Date: 2012-05-02 01:05 am (UTC)Him: You want me to be a lawyer. I'm practicing.
DYING. AHHAHAH... I hate it when they LISTEN and use your words against you. Smart buggers.
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Date: 2012-05-02 01:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-02 01:10 am (UTC):DDD
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Date: 2012-05-02 01:19 am (UTC)-_______-
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Date: 2012-04-30 04:10 pm (UTC)You are NOT alone.
This morning I kept calling N to get downstairs for breakfast and when he finally came down he said, "Okay, mom, parenting tip..."
"Are you a parent?"
"No. Parenting tip, kids don't like being yelled at."
"Parents don't like kids who don't get ready for school. You can give me parenting tips when you're a parent."
:(
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Date: 2012-05-02 01:08 am (UTC)~parenting tip... ah, man he is lucky to survive that one.
What are we going to do when they are actually smartass teenagers?
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Date: 2012-04-30 04:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-02 01:09 am (UTC)YES!!! YES!!!! You understand ME!!! *cries*
why does everything have to be so difficult. >.>
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Date: 2012-04-30 04:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-02 01:10 am (UTC):)
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Date: 2012-05-02 01:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-30 05:32 pm (UTC)I'm sure part of that stubbornness and confidence will help him a great deal in later life. But I totally get that now you just want to go 'aaaargggh' ;-)
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Date: 2012-05-01 03:05 pm (UTC)yes! over Saster I watched my sister try to convince my 50 yr old cousin that he should never bike again because he had thin blood and it was too dangerous. Regardless of the varying opinions on the topic, she would not let it go.
The man is 50! He's been biking all his life, his lifestyle is based on it. It's HIS decision to stop or not because of the health risks (or at least something he should discuss with his partner/immediate family). It was so not her place, but she was like a dog with a bone telling him (and the entire room) all the different ways he could die if he got on a bike and lost all sense of appropriateness.
>.>
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Date: 2012-04-30 06:52 pm (UTC)Good luck with that.
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Date: 2012-05-01 02:55 pm (UTC)If I can raise him to keep his mouth shut even when someone is wrong about something that doesn't matter to anyone, I will be a very proud mama.
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Date: 2012-05-01 06:37 pm (UTC)If your wee one is confident enough to speak out for what he believes in, you'll be proud of him. He may just need to learn to pick his battles...claiming it's not raining when his hair's getting wet is not going to be a winner for him.
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Date: 2012-05-01 06:50 pm (UTC)I want him to stand up to his friends who are all ~too cool to wear coats past March and be like "w/e DUDE, it's Canada! I'm cold."
Instead, it's ME he's picking the fight with because he doesn't want to wear a jacket. which is not cool at all. :P
so. child, use your powder for good, not evil.
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Date: 2012-04-30 08:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-01 02:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-01 12:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-01 02:51 pm (UTC)YES!! THIS!!!
Also, if his friends say something it's FACT! If I then say... 'actually, no' then he doesn't believe me. >.>
... until I google it.
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Date: 2012-05-01 01:01 am (UTC)...
This is why I don't have children, by the way.
Editing to clarify, I didn't mean because of your son's silly arguing, but rather my mean method of dealing with it. I'm too mean to be anyone's mom, alas.
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Date: 2012-05-01 02:46 pm (UTC)'This is what it's like when someone argues with you over something completely inane.'
ahhaha... yes.
The good thing is that we now have this utterly insane example to use every time he tries to argue. "Remember the time you stood in the rain and argued with me that it wasn't raining??? That is how ridiculous you sound right now!"
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Date: 2012-05-01 06:01 am (UTC)My first boyfriend was like that (he was 16), really good at distraction tactics, completely missing the point, steadfastly ignoring reason/logic/evidence, and he was the most emotionally manipulative and abusive person I've ever met. Idk what made him the way he was, because he was also an unabashed rapist and physical abuser. I think his refusal to see facts as true made him able to justify all of his behavior and never lose a wink of sleep over it.
If it's anything more than a phase, I'd probably do therapy or something. I feel like productive, reasonable humans have to place value in empirical evidence or they'll never really function in a community.
I don't have kids, but I know that kids do weird things for weird reasons. Here's hoping he grows out of it.
*is a downer*
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Date: 2012-05-01 02:36 pm (UTC)As much as I understand where you are coming from, Eldest is an incredibly loving and gentle child, who bursts into tears at the thought of honestly hurting someone.
I know that being argumentative can be very manipulative, but he is only 7 yrs old, and wanting to be 'right' is very age appropriate. That doesn't stop us from constantly reminding him that there is a time and place to disagree.
I just posted a rant because I was having a bad morning.
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Date: 2012-05-01 07:05 pm (UTC)It could be that this is just a really triggery behavior and I can't think clearly about it, but given what information I had, a disclaimed suggestion that this isn't a behavior to handwave as many of the other comments seemed to do felt appropriate.
But as I said, triggery, so again, maybe I'm just horribly blind to some serious faux pas I made. If so, my bad. I certainly wasn't implying that your son is on the fast track to becoming a rapist or anything like that. I have less extreme examples of this problematic behavior still present in adults around me, but they're harder to pin down in a concise comment. Also, they don't come up immediately when triggered.
Guh. Sorry if I've offended. I'm sure your son's a lovely person.
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Date: 2012-05-01 01:09 pm (UTC)However, it's cute.
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Date: 2012-05-01 02:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-01 02:35 pm (UTC)*scuffs foot* I've turned 21 last February and.. you know.. I'm still kidless..
LOL. However, I have kids I've been babysitting for over 6 years now, and where they never listen to their mother, they always listens to me. I'm very strict, but very, very fair. Their youngest is a bit lik eyour youngest from what I've just read. She's always arguing even though it just doesn't make sense, and even though it makes me want to ruffle her hair and be all like HOW CUTE I can't, because I want her to listen to me.
If she doesn't do what I want, I'm not doing what she want. Consequences. I say something happens, and if it doesn't, I'll just give her a] a time-out or b] I'll take away her desert or something else she enjoys, put her to bed early without a bedtime story or I won't play with her, and she knows this.
There's just no room for discussion with me.
However! I do, and I've noticed this is really important for the kids I've babysitted through my life - explain WHY you want them to do something, and if they do good, make it worth it. Why does he have to wear a hat when it's raining? Make that clear. (I'm sure you do, but you know, just in case)
So yes, no kids, but already a lot of experience with about 20 different kids.
I wish I had my own, but for that I need a husband, or at least a steady relationship, and where I do have a boyfriend, I'm still studyin gand he's just starting a new job, so we're FAR from ready for that xD
♥
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Date: 2012-05-01 02:41 pm (UTC):)
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Date: 2012-05-01 02:44 pm (UTC)♥