Meta rec

[marguerite_26]

I've known for a long time that faithwood is a special kind of brilliant, and her meta posts make my brain orgasm, but I think she's outdone herself this time.

Quality Writing and Comments is a wonderful look at fandom's mentality towards writing, reading and comments and how we interpret quality.

This is not a fandom specific meta. It's relevant to everyone, imo, because I'm very been in a fandom where I haven't seen people look at one story (possibly their own) and say "Why no love, fandom?" and then looked at another (so many pages of comments!!!!) and say "That's because people are stupid."

Quote from Quality Writing and Comments
I think everyone, more than once, read a popular story and ended up loathing it, or they've read an unpopular story and found it brilliant, or a popular story they loved just like everyone else, or an unpopular story they hated just like everyone else. The first two scenarios anger or confuse us and the latter two make us feel validated. Neither scenario means we're right.

And I think (hope) most people are aware that while they rage about the popularity of some shitty story and celebrate the popularity of a brilliant one, at the same time, somewhere else in fandom, another person rages about the popularity of the story you thought was brilliant and celebrates the popularity of the story you found terrible.

Both individuals have friends who agree with them — and at least one of them is definitely someone who works in the publishing business in Real Life and therefore speaks with authority, because such is the internet — and together they wonder what the hell is wrong with that other group. Why would they like that story? Why would they hate this one? Why do people have such shitty taste? What sorts of machinations enable this injustice? Why-oh-why people can't recognize QUALITY?

eta: MORE THOUGHTS! because I'm procrastinating I was feeling thinky after I left my comment on that post.

What I like most about this meta is that it's not preaching 'STOP COMMENT COUNTING!!' it's about the concept of taste and preference. I know I sometimes read something that was funny and hit all my kinks and therefore I don't care that your favourite character (in your opinion) was nothing like canon. The fic was AWESOME!!! *recs it all over the place*

And yet that 'perfectly crafted' story that someone else recced I thought was so fucking YAWN. Or the 'hilarious crack' from yesterday was so ridiculous it gave me second hand embarrassment for that author. But you, who I agree with most of the time, thought it was god's gift to fandom. Are you blind???

We like what we like!!! We like some authors more than others and sometimes a lot of people like those funny authors or perverted authors and sometimes the risk takers or the rare pair lovers get no comments and well... that's not fair. *nods*

But it's fandom. And no one is setting out the 'steal' anyone's comments. No one controls fandom's reaction to things. All you can do is accept that fandom isn't fair and deal with the choices you have (get better, write stuff that people love, write what you love, accept that you'll never ever be happy if you stress about the popularity of your fics) or you need to get out, because fandom isn't going to ever be fair.

Comments

[snarkyscorp.livejournal.com]

I loved Faith's post and I love your commentary on it too, because all we really need to realise is just that: FANDOM IS NOT FAIR. I can stomp my feet and whine and complain and tantrum all I want, but that's never unfortunately going to change.

It's actually why I tend to enjoy anonymous fests more than non-anonymous ones: it forces everybody to NOT look at an author's name and judge the fic/art solely on its summary, pairings, rating, genre, and quality. Because if people have fears (as they will) that So And So BNF will get more reads because of their name (which is true, and I admit to this too, because if I like an author, I read as much of them as I can - not because they're a BNF but because, as Faith's article points out, I gel with their writing style/perviness/or they make me feel good), then that sort of goes away during an Anon fest. It really proves the crux of this argument too, that fandom isn't fair, because what I would call a bad fic (or one I don't like) still gets read during anon fests and sometimes gets more comments than fics that are so much better written or that I gel with more. Fandom picks what fandom wants, and we're all a part of that, because we're individuals with individual tastes and likes and squicks and nitpicky things we dislike or love and each and every one of us reads what we want and nothing more.

I love that fandom is thinking about all this and discussing it in an open forum. I know there was severe dramallama that brought it up, but reading all this just keeps me sane and aware of the problems that I can often struggle with too. like WHY DONT YOU READ MY DUMBLEDORE/PEEVES FIC, WORLD, ITS SO GOOD AND I SPENT 20 YEARS WRITING THIS EPIC OF AMAZINGNESS.

Sometimes, it's best to read things like this and take a step back to breathe before fandom and its ways drive you insane. :)

(though I'm of the opinion that I actually see quality rewarded more often than not over BNFs and all that - it could just be me "growing up" into fandom and seeing that everyone has certain tastes and if I don't like BNF #5's writing, I don't have to friend her, look at her, read her 50 million comments, etc. I can walk away from a thing like that easily now, whereas, say, when I first entered fandom, I was far more conscious and annoyed by such things)

/ramble!

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

I agree that anon fests are fantastic for leveling the playing field nicely. It works both ways. For people who have 'big names' and still manage to get a lot of comments in fest, it can reassure then that they aren't just a 'name' but that they write stuff that people want to read.

On the other hand if you post a genre that isn't that popular (like dark/agnsty fics or DUMBLEDORE/PEEVES ) it could work against you. I wouldn't read a dark fic by just anyone. so I tend to avoid them until after reveals.

SO COMPLICATED!

But that's just how it is. And I guess that's all this is about. There's no fix to the fact that something is going to be more popular than something else. Understanding that taste is a big part of it makes it about the reader and not about the fic. For me, that's reassuring, IDEK.

[mabonwitch.livejournal.com]

Just went and read. I think she definitely has some great points. Unfortunately, it doesn't make it any less difficult when I write something and get very few comments. (For the record, though, I've never thought someone else was stealing my comments, and rarely pouted over how someone else got more than me.) There are days it makes me batshit that some off-the-cuff silliness I wrote at a comment fest gets as many comments as some other fic I struggled with and edited twelve times, though. And it is hard to keep pouring my heart into something if I feel like no one really cares/likes it. Or even if it feels like only my friends like it. (Note that I said *feels* like! It's a very emotional response, isn't it?) It is hard to untangle my feelings from what I know in my head!

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

*nods* Knowing the stuff faith said is true doesn't make it easier to not get comments, I don't think.

fwiw, we all go through it for one reason or another, or have in the past. I'm still oddly bitter about one fic I wrote in another fandom that was all bloodsweattears and took me months to write and I got two comments on it. TWO!!! *laughs at self* let it go maggie - it was 7 years ago.... /o\

It's all a very emotional response, and it's not wrong. But when looking at someone else's success turns a writer bitter and hurtful then they are missing the point that fandom isn't fair.

Enjoy the success of your off-the-cuff silliness!!! Remember the reader doesn't know where the words came from. They just honestly enjoyed them (despite the missing bloodsweattears).

[scribblemoose]

That's a great post, thanks for linking to it. I was talking about this with a few friends recently and we were each amazed the other had the same worries - we're all so quick to put ourselves down, as Faith said. It's not healthy and can lead down a dark path indeed.

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of time we think she never thinks about stuff like that... but we all have tender underbellies. Just various levels of skin thickness. :)

When it's about other people's opinions and how we all know that people are just different and very unique in their tastes, it makes me feel better. IDEK - it's about taste and you can't change that, and you really don't want to cater to it.

[stellamoon.livejournal.com]

Faith certainly has a way of putting things in perspective, and I wish more people would take her words to heart. With the latest drama, I thought, "Been there, done that, and didn't Faith write about it?" LOL! I have a real problem with people who say things like they aren't getting the comments they deserve, and maybe they just don't belong here, and maybe they'll just leave fandom, blah, blah, blah. It's a pet peeve of mine, and when I see that very thing result in its sometimes inevitable explosion, I feel vindicated! (like that's important! *snort*)

Oops, I just deleted a whole paragraph of this comment, so as not to allow you see just how Not.Nice. I can be sometimes. I want everyone to still love me and comment on my posts, after all. ;)

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

I think Faith is right in everything she said, and that most people agree with her. But it's all easier said than done. We can understand logically why something that we don't like is popular and our own blood/sweat/tears piece of perfection is NOT, but it doesn't make it easier to swallow sometimes.

However, what we 'do' with that disappointment is what's important.

I want everyone to still love me and comment on my posts, after all. ;)
LOL!!!

[ginger-veela.livejournal.com]

Faith's post was great, and I like yours, too, but I admit to being bewildered that people actually have time to sit around and stress about comment counts and popularity and whatnot. I barely have time to participate in fandom at all, and what little time I do have is devoted to writing fic, co-modding hpdrunkfic (and trying to organize a Japan drunkfic benefit therefor), and skimming my flist and leaving comments as time permits. Never in a million years can I imagine having the time to worry about whether someone else is more popular than me or gets more comments. Maybe that's because I'm a small-name fandomer? IDK.

[anna-unfolding.livejournal.com]

You're not small named in my book, bb. &hearts

[ginger-veela.livejournal.com]

Haha. That's because I can write my name really big. See?



Look! I'm a BNF!

[anna-unfolding.livejournal.com]

[adores your irreverent ways]

Oh, and Hi, Maggie! I will read through Faith's post soon. I am between a nature field trip and gymnastics and Chorus practice. :)

But! I wanted to tell you since gv is here and all, that you made an appearance in the director's cut outtakes version of Mijeli's and my hp drunkfic that I posted this week. We were needing some good Canadian phrasing since Justin Bieber was in our fic. Yes I did actually mean that sentence. Mijeli and I wrote an H/D from Bieber's POV at a MCR concert in hogsmeade.

CRACKTASTIC.

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

AHAHAHAH!!! That is WIN. :)

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

Sounds to me like you are doing fandom right. :)

Have fun and keep busy. dance like no one is watching. ;)

[tracy7307.livejournal.com]

Wow... while all the points that were brought up are completely and totally valid, this is all rather... intimidating to someone like me, who is trying to learn the ropes of posting/reading fic here on LJ. Before my fanfiction hiatus, I used to just read/post on the Hexfiles archive, which is much less interactive, I suppose, therefore avoiding some of these issues (but then you miss out on the discourse). What the hell did I get myself into? LOL!

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

LJ is a very funny social space but don't let this topic get you down. while everyone who posts fics wants people to like it, not everyone is goes crazy worrying about that stuff.

I won't tell you that LJ isn't full of crazies, but you learn over time that the crazies are only a de-friend button away and staying out of wank isn't rocket science. ;)

The amazing wonderful things that LJ gives you, far outweighs the bad. Don't go running off!
:D

[tracy7307.livejournal.com]

I'm a tough cookie. It'll take more than a few crazies to run me off. I'm loving the community so far, but this just sent up a flag, that's all. I guess there will be drama with any social medium, because that's unfortunately how some people thrive.

I'm not bothered with all that. Just here for the fic ;)

[archaeologist-d.livejournal.com]

I agree with her and you about the comments and the post counts and so on but still my monkey brain is crying sometimes about it all.

I had to laugh a bit because I wasn't thinking about fanfic so much as very popular profic - Dan Brown's DaVinci Code had me seething at how badly I thought it was written and yet it made millions. Sigh. I guess it is really all about taste.

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

well, knowing it's true doesn't make it easier. LOL.

ha! the DaVinci Code. LOL. Well, we can't forget about Twilight.

But also, it works the other way too. I know lots of great writers that are labelled 'Twilight writers' just because their stuff is popular - but it's popular because they write in a style that people enjoy - not because it's 'dumb' writing.

or.. not 'dumb' to me. LOL.

[potteresque_ire]

Yeah, the sum is always greater than the whole. Sometimes I can't explain why I like a story... I just do.

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

Exactly. We shouldn't have to justify why we like a story. Nor expect anyone else to justify it.

however - it's hard not to. lol.

[potteresque_ire]

:D! Yeah, we're taught that we have to make objective arguments for everything... even if it's more than apparent than a simple "I like it" would suffice.

(Now that I think of it, that was very similar I said in the interview that I am pretty sure got me into the uni of my dreams ♥—If I can give you every single reason I want to be there...chances are I don't like it enough :) )

[secretsolitaire.livejournal.com]

*pets fandom*

Great link, thank you!

[marguerite-26.livejournal.com]

welcome!